Eneco "developing" chip to convert excess heat directly to energy

We can smell hints of vaporware from miles away, and while Phantom has certainly personified the term in recent situations, Eneco is well on its way to joining the fray. While it's impossible to completely disregard the firm's miraculous claims just yet, we certainly aren't sold on the micro-sized "solid state energy conversion / generation chip, which will convert heat directly into electricity or alternatively refrigerate down to -200 degrees Celsius when electricity is applied." Investors from around the globe have flocked to witness this potential wonder, as its described as being able to use "thermionic energy conversion" to convert excess heat directly to usable, waste-free energy. Additionally, the uses are "nearly endless," as it could be placed on a laptop's processor to render the Li-ion cell completely unnecessary, or strapped onto a fireplace in order to generate electricity for gizmos around the house. Eneco insists that positive progress is being made towards producing an actual product (red flag?), and if all goes as planned, we could see the miracle-working chip available in "early 2008." We can't help but hand over a dash of credibility to these smart talkers, however, as the company is apparently already in cahoots with "Apple, Dell, Ford, BMW, and Boeing" to get the heavily-patented technology into their future products, but we're still taking all this in with a healthy serving of salt for now.

[Via Slashdot]

[Crazylink @ Nov 24th 2006 1:42AM]

Could we use them to harnesss heat from our own bodies?

[Will @ Nov 24th 2006 1:48AM]

Our bodies are warm for a reason, I think we'd die if we tried that.

Plus, that's assuming these things ever exist in our lifetimes.

[Gil @ Nov 24th 2006 1:51AM]

Actually we waste quite a lot of the heat we're putting out. Maybe a small part of that could be used to power our devices.


Assuming this tech exists... :)

[Will @ Nov 24th 2006 2:07AM]

Either way, for some reason I don't think I like the idea of attaching machinary to my body that can sap my body heat as needed. Gun-toting Roombas I'm fine with, but not undead-esque life-draining robots. :P On the other hand, if we ever get create robotic mosquitos, this would be the perfect way to power them -and- add some realism!

[que "I welcome our overlords" snowclone here]

[Octavus @ Nov 24th 2006 1:53AM]

They have thermocouples which are similar to this. The main difference is this can have 30% efficiency compared to a thermocouple which is usually around 5%.

[Henry @ Nov 24th 2006 2:25AM]

Thermocouples in RTGs are usually around 30 percent efficient, I think.

[Henry @ Nov 24th 2006 2:27AM]

Oh never mind. I just checked it, you're right, it is something low like %5. Dunno where I got 30.

[PreGHz @ Nov 24th 2006 8:53AM]

*cough*

I, for one, welcome our totally unrealistic heat converting and destined-for-vaporware overlords.

*/cough*

[Zeke @ Nov 24th 2006 2:23AM]

This shouldn't be too hard considering that heat is already a form of energy.
These people really need to take some remedial physics classes. Or be more specific in describing what their innovation actually does.

[YankInOz @ Nov 24th 2006 3:00AM]

This is VERY old technology and a company called Cool Chip has a similar product in "final stages" - and has had for the last five years. (a-a-h-e-m)...

The problem that Eneco has is creating and keeping a perfect vacuum for the electron transfer. Cool Chip needs to have their "plates" perfectly aligned at the nano-meter scale. Both are extremely difficult in a lab situatin much less in the "real" world.

There is an easier way - but I'm not telling. :P

[bazald @ Nov 24th 2006 3:04AM]

"it could be placed on a laptop's processor to render the Li-ion cell completely unnecessary"

Wow... it is a real-world perpetual motion device. Well done Eneco... well done...

[Jason @ Nov 24th 2006 10:21AM]

Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

[Timothy @ Nov 24th 2006 3:34AM]

Have you never heard of the laws of thermodynamics? You cannot convert heat directly to energy, you require a heat gradient between a hot reservoir and a cold reservoir (these may each just be opposite faces of a chip). You could generate energy from the heat emission of a processor, but this would decrease rather than increase the rate of heat loss from the chip, making it hotter. You can also actively pump energy away from the chip, but this consumes energy.

The technology to actively cool chips using solid state systems has been around for a long time. They're called peltier heat pumps. The problem is that they release more heat on the hot surface than they absorb on the cold one, making them pretty useless for cooling. They are good for taking up heat though :)

[MPG @ Nov 24th 2006 7:55AM]

"Have you never heard of the laws of thermodynamics?"

That was actually my first thought. This is a technology-oriented site, yet it seems to be mostly about using technology and less about understanding it, because both the writers and the large majority of the readers seem to have only a very very basic grasp of science (as in "plug must go in outlet" or "loud music make ears hurt").

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Nov 24th 2006 3:52AM]

Expect efficiency well below 25% of something like that. I'd say 5-10% would be pretty realistic number.

Anyhow, miracle-wise, why we do not see solar panels as miracle too? Principle is the same - physicians just need to find proper components. (*)

Just as with solar panels, which struggle to improve efficiency and barely reached now IIRC 18%, I do not expect miracle as 50% of efficiency.

(*) Though I also bit doubtful. With solar panels, it is bit clearer: we have photons which are "captured" and converted to energy. Heat (or temperature) isn't same thing: it's state of matter. You need to have source for holes/electrons somewhere.

[Dustin @ Nov 24th 2006 4:11AM]

..And in other news, Eneco's new automobile engine generates 1.21 gigawatts of energy

[Vagrant @ Nov 24th 2006 4:43AM]

Slap a Sterling engine on that processor and call it a day. ;)

[MacD @ Nov 24th 2006 6:00AM]

@bazald: that's probably a bit of engadget editorialising, not at all what Eneco is claiming.

As for the actual principle...why is everyone so sceptical? We convert chemical energy to kinetic, electric to kinetic, kinetic to electrical, kinetic to chemical, heat to kinetic and kinetic to heat (and sound/vibration) all the time. Energy conversion from one kind to another is not new or revolutionary. These guys say they have a mechanism to convert heat (atom movement) to electrical (electron energy) at a reasonable efficiency. IANAP(yet, give it year or so), but there's not too much outragious about the claim in and of itself.

[Gil @ Nov 24th 2006 7:32AM]

"The result is a solid state energy conversion chip that can operate at temperatures of up to 600 degrees celcius and deliver absolute efficiencies in terms of how much heat energy is converted to electricity of between 20 and 30 percent."

That's why everyone is skeptical.

If they do make it then good for them and all of us. They might cut the power consumption of EVERY electrical system out there. But it's highly unlikely.

[crypt @ Nov 24th 2006 6:12AM]

In this household we will OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!!!!!!...

sorry, Simpson quote, but I just had too

[Dave Pevsner @ Nov 24th 2006 11:16AM]

intel probably wishes this technology was around when they were selling prescott....

OH BURN! LIKE A PIZZA OVEN!


honestly, if this works, it will immensely help computer cooling systems, and as we move into quad-core, a cooling system that generates its own electricity, and probably makes no noise doing it, is a blessing. desktops will be more energy efficient and quieter, and mobile devices will have longer lasting batteries and will be completely noiseless(except for HDDs and optical drives on laptops, but the solid state disk will come to save the day).

[Mr Mutt @ Nov 24th 2006 3:15PM]

For those who are interested, the phenomena that they are employing is called the Seebeck effect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltier_effect

It follows the laws of thermodynamics, just like everything else. The biggest disadvantage of methods like this are surface conductance resistance. This means you need the device to be in perfect contact with whatever you are cooling, and it also requires a fairly large temperature gradient. The solid state chips are getting better, but still leave a lot to be desired. I'm skeptical about a reported 30% efficiency.

[sfeng1 @ Nov 25th 2006 12:39AM]

uh second law of thermodynamics anyone?

[Kibi @ Nov 26th 2006 5:46AM]

Hey, it's only one law of thermodynamics - the others can be left just as they are. Can't we get a pass just one damn time?